the freedom center is neither...

HELEN

Jenna:

next person to call helen, please tell her if she ever calls me again i'm going to do something horrible like try to get her put away & stripped of all her personal rights forever and ever w/a rogers order, or burglarize her home & put nair in her shampoo or shave her cat or somethign. i want her to believe that calling me would be a bad idea for HER sake b/c she obviously has no problem annoying ME.

i didn't listen to her message b/c she should know bettter than 2 call me and i just deleted it as soon as i heard her name, as i had jumped out of bed woken from desperately needed sleep to find the phone thinkng it might be re: my friend's whereabouts

p.s. until further notice there will be NO more organizers mtgs at my apartment.


Caty:

I have to say I'm truly shocked and appalled to see an fc organizer want to threaten someone coming to the fc for help with psychiatric abuse & other awful things just b/c the organizer is upset that the person is calling her too much. Even if it was meant in jest or anger or both, I never thought I'd see those words on our list. Especially when the person called us for help about a Roger's Order that is truly oppressing her.


Kevin:

Blah, Blah, Blah and WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!

Let me set a few things straight right now for the record.

Or better yet, let's all take a little stroll down Madness Ave. in Jenna's shoes shall we?

Let me start by saying I have a very personal knowledge of Ed's time in Jenna's life, what a holy shitshow that was, and still is and, now, FC's role in allowing this to happen (positive, positive, positive...hey, let's go tell someone whois HIV+ about the wonderful uses of the word "positive") and FC's utter lack of support in Ed's continual harassment of Jenna. Yeah great, he's gone away...for now.

Let me continue by delving into the constant ass-reaming Jenna takes on this list for expressing her opinions, feelings and visions for this "organization" (A word I'm using about as loosely as FC throws around the word "positive")...I don't think I need to, nor do I have the entire week to fully document this but I can sum it up with phrases like "continual marginalization" and "utter lack of ANY kind of support".

Put on top of this the fact that facilitating SG was essentially foisted on her by someone who then had a shit fit on her for taking over facilitating SG. Put on top of that a wonderful party plan turned into an e-list cat fight. Put on top of that calls for transparency and inclusion being met with much criticism and derision (and BTW I take this personally as I was part of that meeting and those "calls").

Now, put on top of this the duress of a friend in a life or death situation. For the record, I need to clarify what I now know. It wasn't Jenna but her friend Betty who asked FC to help, thinking as so many erroneously do that we're in a position to actually DO something for someone. Nevertheless, the situation gets extremely urgent and instead of help or support, Jenna gets an earful about FC ideology (yeah...dogma, dogma, dogma...and meanwhile someone is out there FUCKING FREEZING HIMSELF TO DEATH in the name of a delusion!!!!!!)

Put on top of all this, and I'll say it again because it really has become a fucked-up feedback loop, the constant lack of support of any kind Jenna has gotten from the vast majority of y'all here (and those of you who I'm not speaking of, you know who you are) while she has willingly co-facilitated Support Group and hosted Org. Meetings 2x/month.

Now, put on top of this the pressure she's under between Massage School, the seriously life/death situation with Chris, and all the ethical conundrums she has had to work out practically on her own (and for the record, I was the first/one ofthe first to suggest hospitalization for Chris) and, I'll say it one more time in the spirit of the ol' feedback loop, the amount of bullshit/amount of support ratio Jenna has received from FC proper (my bad, you can't make a ratio when one of the numbers is "0").

Now, top it all off with the fact that this "Helen" will not stop calling her when it is clear Jenna can do nothing for her.

Is anybody here "shocked and appalled" now that Jenna may have such an extreme reaction to this latest chapter of madness?

Or, am I the one in need of a Rogers for pointing any/all of this out?

Kevin,

At this rate, a soon-to-be former FC member


Lee:

Hey Kevin,

A bunch of us are talking about moderation of this list so that conflicts like this don't explode so easily because it seems to be a drain of our organizational energy and seems to be effecting most members in a negative emotional way.

Sarcasm is not an easy sentiment on email, and however sarcastic Jenna is being it's really rough to make jokes on an email list about rogers' ordering someone and taking away their rights...regardless of her current state of madness and stress.

The other things you mentioned in your email are all things that are going on, but they are not immediately relevant to jokes about rogers orders etc.

Lee


Jenna:

hello list,

i would like to apologize for the rather evil email i sent earlier regarding the annoying phone call i got. if i had taken ten deep breaths & thought things through before sending, it wouldn't have been sent.

i said what i did because i've been accused a couple times recently (NOT accusing anyone here) of wanting to put a rogers order on somebody, and as i cannot at ALL imagine EVER wanting to do that, in fact one of the worst things about my current experiences in my other life (for which i started the other list) has been having to struggle with doing something i think is going to be incredibly horrible (not that, specifically) to someone that i deeply love. the idea that i would ever wish such a thing upon ANYBODY is entirely laughable to me - or it would be if it were not all so tragic.

and because i have been given so much shit by so many people who really know nothing about me, accusing me of having motives i do not have (based on their own projections, based on not knowing me at all) i was pissy, and i was bitchy.

and i should not have acted out that way on the list.

and i am apologizing. i am sure everyone knows i never for a second thought someone would actually call helen & say "jenna says if you ever call her again she's gonna..." etc. etc. i mean, i know that none of you would ever be stupid enough or mean enough to do such a thing.

but i understand that my message was scary to people.

i will not be posting here again until i've got my personal problems under control & have found a way to get regular sleep and have figured out what i really think about fc & whether future involvement will be good or whether it will destroy me and everyone around me.

sincerely,

jenna

Amanda:

i feel very strongly that this list should *not* be moderated. i think we are all capable of overstepping, and also capable of calling out those who overstep. i think it is a dangerous idea and one that will create an undercurrent...stronger than any we have now...of bad feelings. and who would moderate????? keely????? i think not. she is not a psych survivor, and tho she means well, there are many things she may not understand. i think it is really fucked up to have one person have censored info on another...

that said, i do think there are other avenues to attempt before setting into motion an attempt at censorship.

i think it is important to call individuals out on their personal behavior. when this has been done appropriately, there have been apologies and no hard feelings. when it is not done appropriately, or done in an attacking manner, that is where we have gotten into problems. what the fuck is wrong with saying you hurt my feelings? or your post really freaked me out...what is going on. this is junior high shit man! come on.

i think if a person is continually x-ing these lines then something should be done on an individual level...ie...you will be removed from the list for a while.

this is about accountability...if this list is moderated we will lose this precious gift of learning to be accountable, learning to see our destructive behaviors, and then someone else (the moderator) has all this shit on us to use against us. keep it open...keep it honest... step up and call people out when you are upset by something... take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

just because we are psych survivors does not mean we cannot be accountable or responsible... but sometimes it does mean we overstep, over react, or just go plain nuts. it means we need to find ways to support each other, and also listen to when we are triggered or are triggering another

i guess what i am saying is that there are other options to try first, and the first response is not always the best response.

Lee:

Hey Amanda,

I feel like there is some confusion about what moderation is. Moderation is not one person making the rules and imposing them on everyone else. We can all makes the rules, and simply ask one person to make sure we "play fair". I thought Keely would be good because she is a bit removed so nothing can be considered personal, but it doesn't have to be her, it could be you, Amanda. It could be Melissa. It could be anyone. The important thing is not who moderates. The important thing is that we do it.

Most list-servs have a moderator. It's basic protection to avoid people coming on and being able to say absolutely anything... it keeps the focus of a list.

I would like to think we could just "know" when we're "overstepping" but I have no confidence in that. It's been months now and the list has still gone on like this and I don't think people have been held accountable at all. It's exhausting to try to keep up with the amount of things people need to be held accountable for and it's not a good use of our organizational energy.

Many many people already got off the list in the last few months and we lost a number of allies. In addition to that, Oryx is talking about getting off the list. Kevin just got off it. Jenna's taking a break from it. Will and Caty are both upset about it. And if something is not done about this list I am getting off it and I have been on it for almostthree years.

If someone has a *concrete* proposal other than moderation they can make it but otherwise I'm going to work on basic guidelines for moderation and bring it to the group as a proposal for us to look at. This is an organizing list and it's gotten too personal and little to no organizing has been done on it for a while.

FC can and should has lots of room for personal relationships and connections and people to share their personal lives, but I don't think the organizing list should be one of those forums. If it is, I'm just not interested anymore.

Lee


Kevin:

Holy Crap,

Yes I am coming in late again, as I've just gotten home from work, but shit I've got alot to say.

First of all, yes I know Jenna has since apologized for her post this morning...however apparently I have to state the obvious just in case anyone completely skipped over/ignored the words "EXTREME reaction" in regard to my defense of Jenna at the beginnings of yet another ingloriously judgemental e-mail campaign against her.

Clearly, I do not condone WHAT Jenna wrote...I mean, for fuck's sake why do I even have to state this, has activism met political correctness at a point so low that one needs a long, long ladder to see the wart-ridden ass of reality?

As for my own post in defense of Jenna the human being. I do not and will not apologize for any of that. The fact that it was my use of sarcasm and some shit about how we can't condone making Rogers' test jokes were the only things commented on by anyone really speaks volumes to me about FC as an organization. Having said that, at least there was ONE person who had the guts to post, as utterly wrong-headed as I thought it was. The waves of silence from the rest of you are beyond deafening. Why did no one (other than the other members of this oppressed majority, who I will excuse based on the fact that they are in the same boat anyway) at least carry on with the issue of Jenna's treatment in FC?

Look, I came into FC what, four months ago, wanting to give of myself and wanting to be involved in an organization whose history shared much in common with my own life story. What I didn't realize is what I was getting into and what I was about to witness.

I've given this quite a bit of thought over the course of a very slow evening on the job and the conclusions I have come to do not speak very highly of FC. As I found myself pondering things in a workplace that is every bit as maddening as FC, I came to the sad realization that it is OK to enter into established organizations and institutions, and even more endearing if you come in as someone who cares or wants to care. However, the minute you actually do or say anything that shows how much you care, all shit breaks loose and all shit is often dumped upon the new person who cares enough to want to see this established institution become the best it can be, and perhaps even cares enough to do what it would take to make that happen.

This has been my FC experience to date. I have apparently encountered an organization that talks a quite frankly mediocre game when it comes to inclusion but when the chips are down not only has marginalized those members who have brought issues regarding the organization forward (in the interest of making a better organization), but find themselves on the back end of all matter of negativity and downright slander.

I have witnessed quite a few organizational issues simply get swept under the rug and I have also witnessed an active campaign, wittingly or unwittingly (like THAT fucking matters), to destroy two of our members...often in defense of an institutional success story (oops, better state for the 58th time that I have nothing against this institutional success story).

Fuck, if I wanted to get involved with an organization that swept issues under the rug and acted to destroy the lives of those people who brought these issues to light, I'd have gotten involved with the federal fucking government.

As I type this, I am as absolutely 100% besides myself with anger and rage as I was when I read Caty's response to Jenna's off-color post. And while it was, even by Jenna's own admission, inappropriate, how the fuck is it that FC, as a mental-health self-determination organization that alleges to have all of these fucking resources has practically driven at least one of its members to the verge of emotional collapse...And how is it that when this manifests itself, all the next person in line can do is pile on by writing this "shocked and appalled" condemnation...And how is it that when another FC member points out how FC has driven this person to this extreme, this member gets ONE, repeat ONE comment from ONE, repeat, ONE person about their sarcastic tone and the still deplorable nature of rogers test jokes (again, at least this ONE, repeat, ONE person had the guts to say ANYTHING!)

So here I am tonight, realizing that all the time and energy spent just today dealing with this garbage could have been spent on another list I'm part of trying to save somebody's life in a meaningful way. And it is in this and other realizations that I have come to realize something. As of tonight, I have come to realize that the last four months I have spent on the FC Organizer's List has been a complete fucking waste of my time...and right now I am on the verge of tears as I fucking realize that I have known this all along.

I suppose the only comfort I can take, and about the only thing that is keeping me from turning into a blubbering mess at this time, was knowing that I tried to be part of meaningful progress within this organization, and even if all that meant doing was spending alot of my time speaking in defense of the two FC members this organization set out to destroy (again wittingly or unwittingly, though I fail to see where that makes a difference) and I can at least take comfort in the hope that perhaps there is some small deed I have done here that has kept one or both said members, two of the kindest, most compassionate people I have met in a very long time, if ever, from completely coming undone in all of this.

Finally, I would like to say for the record that it is really fucking sad commentary that it took Jenna sending a self-admittedly over-the-top post as she did for someone to realize that we can't treat each other with enough fucking respect as human beings to self-moderate our own e-mail list.

So put it all together and I am in a no-win situation with this list and an "organizer" with FC (and I use the term "organizer" loosely on my own behalf)

On the one hand, I will NOT be part of an e-mail list moderated by an outsider. On the other hand, I will not be part of an e-mail list where the people involved cannot treat each other with a sense of basic human decency and especially in the case of a group such as FC, basic human sensitivity.

As such, I ask at this time that I be removed from this e-mail list.
Furthermore, I will no longer attend FC Organizer's Meetings and have no interest in being involved in FC as an organizer.

Finally, unless I contact any of you personally via e-mail or otherwise, I ask that nobody on this list make any contact with me, as any attempts at unwelcome contact will, at best, be left unanswered and any e-mails with [fc-organizers] in the heading will simply be deleted.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Will:

hi everyone,

over the past several months i have watched people get hurt and leave this list. i have been hurt and have stepped back from the list myself.

everyone has good intentions and is doing what they can. we have all spiralled into insensitivity here, and I am no exception. but posts to this list have continued to violate our community guidelines and basic principles of freedom center mutual support and respect.

the purpose of this list is to accomplish freedom center organizing goals, not to have extended interpersonal dialog around feelings and conflicts.

freedom center is based on clear guidelines, specific goals, and facilitated meetings. it is not an open social forum.

and the guidelines, goals, and facilitation of freedom center are not personal opinions that should then be turned into the subject of debate on the list and meetings. that is not the purpose of the list. our guidelines, goals, and facilitation are terms of agreement that you enter into when you become part of freedom center.

I want to specifically ask people, Why are you here as organizers? The goal of being a Freedom Center *organizer* is to accomplish activist tasks in pursuit of our mission. It is not a club or society or internet community to join where we invest our energy and time into conflict, drama, gossip, attacks, and defensive mutual accusation.

We're going to a facilitated list so that email can serve its purpose with respect. My apologies to everyone who has suffered because of the delay in putting this policy into practice.

I specifically want to apologize to people who have felt the need to leave this list or who have become silent.

If you have a concern about this policy, please email me directly or call 413.210.2803. This list is not a place to discuss list policy or respond to this email, but I am willing to do so off list, within reasonable limits and in a manner of mutual respect.

I realize that in acting in this way we/I will be accused of censorship and dictatorship. This is a misunderstanding of the basic needs of group facilitation and organizing, and the importance of having shared guidelines and creating basic safety.

Anyone who wants to continue with free-form, no-guidelines interpersonal dialog, is invited to inform me, and I will set up a non-moderated list specifically for that purpose. the icarus project actually has a 'rants and rages' forum that is quite popular and serves a valuable purpose.

Jenna:

hello, will.

i would like to let you know that i am officially leaving the freedom center as of today. i uploaded the last madness radio show but you can find someone else to do that for free for you now.

i am absoultely disgusted with this organization but you have made yourself clear here about where you stand and i see no need for discussion.

you have effectively shut down any and all possible venues for any kind of dissent by stating that neither organizers meetings nor the list are a place for personal opinions.

you also stated this:

"the guidelines, goals, and facilitation of freedom center are not personal opinions that should then be turned into the subject of debate on the list and meetings. that is not the purpose of the list. our guidelines, goals, and facilitation are terms of agreement that you enter into when you become part of freedom center."

i do not recall EVER in my almost 3 years of involvement with the freedom center being told that by "joining" i agreed to the guidelines, goals, and facilitation of the "freedom center". i was not asked to sign any paper. i was never informed that this was a condition of my involvement.

in some of freedom center's propaganda, it is described as a place where people decide for themselves what healing avenues are best for them and work toward that. this completely contradicts what you said above.

if i had heard a statement such as yours when i joined, i would NOT have joined. i am sorry i wasted so much time and energy on this group. please enjoy your fabulous future.

i do not wish to hear back from you or anybody and will delete any and all emails i receive from this so-called "collective".

sincerely,

jenna

public speaking makes me tremble.

i forget when this even was, but i had a thing or two to say. it's too bad that i come off as a total freakazoid. my ending suggestion i believe invalidated anything useful i had to say because it was so totally utopian & unrealistic (city council members actually getting to know homeless people as PEOPLE? well some here & there might or might have.) anyway this was at northampton city council meeting recently where they were trying to push through this hugely bogus anti-panhandling legislation.



fortunately, the evening came complete w/a punchline, but that i am saving for another video because i have to edit it down to sound-bites.

in other news... let's see, well everything was going pretty horribly to begin with, and then came matt fein. i told him i wasn't "talking shit" about him behind his back, so i guess i can't say anything about him or what he did. what i can say is that in terms of my sanity, my ability to cope w/the world at large, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. remember when i said that dating makes me psycho? i didn't even think of this as "dating" but it sure did leave me stranded in a mush-pile maze of a brain.